Die Schwalbe

1 problem(s) found in 2431 milliseconds (displaying 1 problem(s)). [PROBID='P0003417'] [download as LaTeX]

1 - P0003417
John Frederick Keeble
2206 The Problemist FCS 16, p. 173, 02/1936
(4+5) C+
h#2.5 (AP)
1. ... exd6ep 2. 0-0-0 dxe7+ 3. Tf8 exf8=T,D#
play all play one stop play next play all
H.Juel: If Black may castle, last move was not made by Ke8 or Ta8, but by Pd5, so it was d7-d5, and hence White may capture en passant. 1... exd6ep 2.0-0-0 dxe7 3.Tf8 exf8=D,T# where the castling (belatedly) justifies the e.p. capture.
Not 1... exd6ep 2.Kd8? dxe7 3.Kc8 e8=D,T
AB: Another 120 retro tries (=60x2 due to tolerated dual promotion) of general form 1. exd6ep 2. T~ dxc7 3. T~ c8=D,T.
No set play
Nachdruck in "Die Schwalbe" 33 mit Diagrammfehler (wBe6 fehlt).
VL: The first AP-problem! Thematic illegal try:
1. ... exd6ep 2.Kd8? dxe7+ 3.Kc8 e8=T(D)#?? (2007-02-11)
Mario Richter: 46 years between this Problem and P1366663 - perhaps this was not Keeble's first AP-Problem?! (2019-08-29)
Ladislav Packa: Of course I know the idea a posteriori. But let my heresy be forgiven - I do not consider it logical. In this particular example, I consider e.p. for proof that black can castling - not vice versa. (2019-08-29)
A.Buchanan: Hi Ladislav. If ep is ok, then Black just moved a pawn with double hop. That doesn't stop Black having e.g. moved bK right at the beginning of the game. So you can't prove that Black definitely can castle this way. What am I missing here? (2019-08-29)
Ladislav Packa: Your statement is perfectly fine. However, the AP condition is usually interpreted as castling is evidence of e.p. However, the second party does not have to do castling - the possibility has already been demonstrated by the existence of e.p. (2019-08-29)
A.Buchanan: Hi again Ladislav. Please try again, I am obviously being very stupid. I don't understand how 1. exd6ep is any more indicative that Black can castle than 1. K~. (2019-08-30)
Ladislav Packa: Hi, Andre!
e.p. is just a result of the d7-d5 move. Black can castle only if it was the last move of black (even without wPe5). Therefore, it does not have the logic of joining the e.p. with castling. For example, ask yourself if black is allowed to castle in the position without wPe5. (2019-08-30)
A.Buchanan: @Ladislav: ep is not "proof that black can castle", rather it is a *necessary* condition for Black to be able to castle. The logical implication is the other way round. We can castle because of the optimistic convention, and because sPd might just have moved. Without wPe, there is no solution, but whatever White plays, Black can castle (2020-12-11)
Hans-Jürgen Manthey: was heißt hier Thematisch Illegal ??
Mir völlig wurscht ob ep möglich oder nicht, nach dem weißen Zug ist natürlich Kd8 möglich !!
also ist auch 1. ... exd6ep 2. Kd8 dxe7+ 3. Kc8 e8DT# eine Lösung, sonst müßte auf die erzwungende Rochade in der Aufgabenstellung hingewiesen werden ! (2020-12-11)
A.Buchanan: Can one tolerate “tolerated dual promotion” in Valladao? Well Valladao himself did, so it must be ok (2022-03-26)
more ...
Keywords: a posteriori (AP) (Type Petrovic), En passant as key, Castling (sg), Promotion (D/T), Tolerated dual promotion (D/T), Valladao Task, Retro Strategy (RS)
Genre: h#, Retro
Computer test: Popeye 4.61
FEN: r3k3/2p1p3/2P1P3/2KpP3/8/8/8/8
Reprints: V. Die Schwalbe 33, p. 323, 06/1975
2001 CHM Themes 12/2000
3 Die Schwalbe 215, p. 240, 10/2005
A1 Problemkiste 169 02/2007
402 Eigenartige Schachprobleme , p. 130, 2010
14 Die Schwalbe 241, p. 374, 02/2010
Input: Gerd Wilts, 1995-06-03
Last update: A.Buchanan, 2022-06-10 more...
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Gerd Wilts (1)