Die Schwalbe

6 problem(s) found in 3384 milliseconds (displaying 6 problem(s)). [COMMENTDATE>=20220810 AND G='Retro' AND K='Aristokrat' AND K='Hilfsrückzüger'] [download as LaTeX]

1 - P0002735
Theodor Steudel
3511 Problemkiste 95 10/1994
P0002735
(1+1) C+
(-1w -1s)*, dann h=1
2 Lösungen
R: 1. Kh2-g1 Kg4xDf3, dann 1. Kh4 Df5=
R: 1. Kf1-g1 Kg3xDf3, dann 1. Kh2 Kf2=
"set play" ( -s, dann h=1 )
R: 1. Ke2xDf3, dann 1. Ke1 Dd3=
play all play one stop play next play all

Duplicate Diagram: P1187070

Adrian Storisteanu: Is the star "*" in the stipulation supposed to indicate a kind of "set play" in the retro part -- in effect a "-1s dann h=1"? Because there is one:
- 1.Ke2xQf3 & 1.Ke2-e1 Qf3-d3=. (2015-08-02)
A.Buchanan: That's a clever interpretation Adrian, I am sure you are right, and it's sound according to Deadpos (2024-01-13)
Adrian Storisteanu: A more precise stipulation would be something like: (-w -s)*, dann h=1 (2024-01-14)
A.Buchanan: Good idea. The convention is that * promises at least one set play instance. (2024-01-15)
comment
Keywords: Help retractor, only Kings, Aristocrat, Miniature
Genre: Retro, Fairies
Computer test: C+ Deadpos v2.3 14-Jan-2024
FEN: 8/8/8/8/8/5k2/8/6K1
Input: Gerd Wilts, 1995-06-03
Last update: A.Buchanan, 2024-01-18 more...
2 - P0005387
Nikita M. Plaksin
6557 feenschach 109 11/1993
P0005387
(2+2) C+
-1w, dann =1
R: 1. Ka3-a4?, dann 1. Lxa2=
R: 1. Ka3xBa4!, dann 1. Lxa2=
play all play one stop play next play all
Mit folgender witziger Begründung des Autors: "If on the board are only KL-KL (and LL on squares of the same colour), by the rules of chess an immediate draw occurs! Therefore, the retro move Ka3-a4 is illegal." Ein Fehllöser: "Reichlich trivial." Ein Ratloser: "... oder wie darf ich das sehen?" TK hatte den Durchblick: "Die doppelte Rücknahmemöglichkeit kann man aber gar nicht übersehen (und schon gar nicht der Autor). Einzige Möglichkeit: nur Ka3xBa4, weil andernfalls die Stellung schon vorher patt wäre. Aber, aber: das ist remis, kein Patt!!" FR: "Meine 'Ehrenlösung' für diese Gruppe (hoffentlich stimmt sie auch)." WM: "Nette Pointe. Das erzähl' ich meinen Kindern, daß ich einen PLAKSIN gelöst habe." 1,2/I
A harbinger of Dead Reckoning-style reasoning, before that rule ever existed. As sound today in 2018, as when it was composed under "insufficient material for mate" rule.
Henrik Juel: Nice to see that I am not the only freak who mixes english text with german notation (to avoid the ambiguous B)
Were you inspired by this problem in your work on Dead Reckoning, Andrew? (2020-05-04)
A.Buchanan: Ha no: when I stumbled across DP rule I knew even less about chess problems than I know now, if you can imagine, and had never encountered this one which Werner Keym unearthed and published it in "Out Of the Box". Ecclesiastes 1:9 says "There is nothing new under the sun." Mario made this point about origin of Schnoebelen promotions too. Gollon's intepretation of Chaturanga (the earliest known forebear of chess) offers fascinating possibilities for Schnoebelen promotion, which I am sure the Indian retrograde analysts of 7th Century CE were adept at exploiting, in tablets alas now lost. See https://www.chessvariants.com/historic.dir/chaturanga.html.

The "insufficient material" composition does perhaps explain Plaksin's openness to the concept of DP, at a time when perhaps some noses elsewhere were being turned up, as he later composed with Kornilov *27* other DP problems, all to be found in PDB. (2020-05-04)
Ladislav Packa: Interesting, but on YouTube I saw a game (one of the actors was Magnus Carlsson), which ended in a position with only two kings and one of the players still made a move. (2020-05-05)
A.Buchanan: http://wismuth.com/chess/illegal-moves.html contains many other games where GMs were unable to tear themselves away from playing the dead game. I think it's kind of sweet that the GMs just can't stop playing. Have you got a link to the Carlsen game please, Ladislav? (2020-05-06)
Ladislav Packa: I'm sorry, Andrew, but I don't remember. I've seen hundreds of games on youtube. But I encountered similar cases in my own practice, mostly a joke, and the game immediately ended with a smile and a handshake. (2020-05-06)
A.Buchanan: A completely different stipulation: -w, h=1 half-duplex (2024-01-11)
more ...
comment
Keywords: Help retractor, Dead Position, Aristocrat, Miniature, Minimal
Genre: Retro, Fairies
Computer test: C+ deadpos v2.1 8-Jan-2024
FEN: 8/8/8/8/K7/8/b7/kB6
Reprints: 440 Out Of the Box , p. 141, 2018
www.thbrand.de 14/01/2018
Input: Gerd Wilts, 1995-06-03
Last update: A.Buchanan, 2024-01-18 more...
3 - P0006339
Yosif Krikheli
8945 FEENSCHACH 09-10/1968
P0006339
(1+1) cooked
-1w -1s, dann h=1
2 Lösungen
1) R: 1. Kc5xDd6 Dd7xDd6, dann 1. Dc6 Dxc6=
2) R: 1. Kc5xBd6 c7xDd6, dann 1. c6 Dxc6#
play all play one stop play next play all
siehe 9200
mri: Mehrere NL, z.B. R: Kc6xLd6 Lc5xDd6 V: 1.Ka5-a6 Dd6xc5 oder R: Kc5xTd6 Tb6xDd6 V: 1.Tb6-c6 Dd6xc6 (2007-10-25)
Mario Richter: s. P0005054 (2009-12-31)
A.Buchanan: Reasonable to suppose that P0005054 is the correction (2024-01-15)
comment
Keywords: Help retractor, only Kings, Aristocrat, Miniature, Superseded by (P0005054)
Genre: Retro, Fairies
Computer test: C- Deadpos v2.3 14-Jan-2024
FEN: 8/8/3K4/k7/8/8/8/8
Input: Gerd Wilts, 1995-09-10
Last update: A.Buchanan, 2024-01-18 more...
4 - P1112386
Mrs. W. J. Baird
(2) British Chess Magazine , p. 136, 03/1903
P1112386
(1+1) C+
Hilfsrückzüger
siehe Text
R: 1. Kf6xBg6, dann 1. ... Kh8 Kf7, dann R: sBh7xBg6, dann 2. ... g7#
play all play one stop play next play all
Originalforderung: 1) White to retract his last move 2) Black to play 3) White to play 4) Black retract a previous move so that 5) White can give mate with Pawn.
A.Buchanan: Deadpos v2 can now solve this, even though PDB animation can't manage to show it:
6k1/8/6K1/8/8/8/8/8 b }}= r1 }}= flip }}= m2 }}= flip }}= r1 }}= flip }}= #1 (p)
h5xRg6 flip then g8h7 h5h4 flip h6xPh7 flip then h7h8q#
f5xRg6 flip then g8h7 f5f4 flip h6xPh7 flip then h7h8q#
g5xPg6 flip then g8h7 g5f6 flip h6xPh7 flip then h7h8q#
g5xPg6 flip then g8h7 g5f6 flip h6xPh7 flip then h7h8r#
g5xPg6 flip then g8h7 g5h4 flip h6xPh7 flip then h7h8q#
g5xPg6 flip then g8h7 g5g4 flip h6xPh7 flip then h7h8q#
g5xPg6 flip then g8h7 g5f4 flip h6xPh7 flip then h7h8q#
f6xPg6 flip then g8h8 f6f7 flip h7xPg6 flip then g6g7#
nsols 8 (2024-01-05)
comment
Keywords: only Kings, Help retractor, Aristocrat, Miniature
Genre: Retro
Computer test: C+ deadpos v2.0
FEN: 6k1/8/6K1/8/8/8/8/8
Input: Frank Müller, 2010-08-06
Last update: A.Buchanan, 2024-01-05 more...
5 - P1131766
Fr. Mendel
89 150 Schachkuriositäten 1910
P1131766
(5+1) cooked
-1w, dann #2
R: 1. b7-b8=S, dann 1. Ld8 Ka6 2. b8=S#
R: 1. b7-b8=S, dann 1. Ld8 Kb8 2. Sc6#
play all play one stop play next play all
Cook: R: 1. Sa6-b8, dann 1. Lc5+! Kxa6 2. Ta7#
R: 1. Sa6-b8, dann 1. Lc5+! Ka8 2. Ta7#
Henrik Juel: The forward play is 1.Ld8 Ka6/Kb8 2.b8=S/Sc6# (2022-10-14)
comment
Keywords: Miniature Collection (0011852), Help retractor, Aristocrat, Miniature, Promotion in the retro play (S), Promotion in forward play (S)
Genre: 2#, Retro
FEN: 1N6/k3BR2/8/8/3N4/2K5/8/8
Input: Felber, Volker, 2010-09-11
Last update: A.Buchanan, 2024-01-18 more...
6 - P1389595
Otto Trinks

P1389595
(2+1) cooked
-1w,1s, dann h#1
R: 1. Bc7xTb8=L Tb7-b8, dann 1. Ta7 c8=D#
play all play one stop play next play all
Der letzte Zug von Weiß muß: Bc7xTb8 und wird Läufer gewesen sein. Schwarz hat vorher Tb7-b8+ gezogen. Nach Rücknahme des letzten Zuges von Weiß und des letzten Zuges von Schwarz ergibt sich daher die Stellung : Weiß: Kh8 Bc7; Schwarz: Ka8, Tb7. Schwarz zieht daher jetzt, um das Matt in einem Zug zu ermöglichen: Tb7-a7 worauf Weiß mit c7-c8=D matt setzt.
Cook: Co-NLs
R: 1. Ba7xLb8=L Kb7xTa8, dann 1. Ka6 axb8=D,axb8=T
R: 1. Ba7xSb8=L Kb7xTa8, dann 1. Ka6 axb8=D,axb8=T
Forderung im 'Boten von der Ybbs': "Weiß nimmt seinen letzten Zug zurück, dann nimmt Schwarz seinen letzten Zug zurück und dann zieht Schwarz so, daß Weiß in einem Zug matt-setzen kann!"

Motto: "Das Waidhofner Problem"

als Autor ist angegeben "Dr. S. Knirt", dabei dürfte es sich um ein Pseudonym von Dr. Otto Trinks handeln (S.Knirt rückwärts gelesen ergibt trinKS)
Adrian Storisteanu: See P0002517. (2024-03-19)
comment
Keywords: Help retractor, Aristocrat, Minimal, Miniature, under-promotion (L), Promotion in the mating move
Genre: Retro
FEN: kB5K/8/8/8/8/8/8/8
Reprints: 13 Bote von der Ybbs 28/12/1929
Input: Mario Richter, 2021-05-14
Last update: Alfred Pfeiffer, 2021-08-16 more...
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The problems of this query have been registered by the following contributors:

Gerd Wilts (3)
Frank Müller (1)
Felber, Volker (1)
Mario Richter (1)