Die Schwalbe

1 problem(s) found in 1468 milliseconds (displaying 1 problem(s)). [PROBID='P1366564']

1 - P1366564
Karl Adolf Koefoed Larsen
5702 Skakbladet 02/1946
Dr. N. Høeg zum 70. Geburtstag
P1366564
(2+7)
Hilfs-Subretropatt vor 2 Zügen
R: 1. Sc6-e7 Kf6-g7 2. Sb8xTc6 Tb6xTc6 nun hat Schwarz als einzigen Retrozug nur 3. e6-e5
play all play one stop play next play all
N. Høeg: "Denne overordentlig fine og vanskelige Opgave satte mig graa Haar i Hovedet i Efteraaret, da K.A.K. Larsen sendte mig den, for at jeg ogsaa selv skulde have noget Besvær med at løse saadanne Opgaver; tilsidst lagde jeg den hen i den Tro, at den var uløselig; jeg kunde ikke komme videre end til Forførelsen Lb8xTc7, Tc6xBxc7, Sc8xTe7, Tb6xTc6. Desto større var Fornøjelsen ved nu atter at give mig i Kast med den og faa den knust. Det genial ved den er, at Retraktionen Sc6-e7 ikke maa efterlade en hvid Bonde e7 og i det hele de mange frie sorte Brikker, der er lammede af hvid Konges Stilling."
Originalforderung: Sort hjælper Hvid at gøre Sort Subretropat i 2 Retraktioner

'Skabladet' erläutert: Af Hensyn til udenlandske (nordiske) Læsere, der ikke kender Begrebet Subretropat, skal oplysys, at Sort er Subretropat, naar der i Stillingen kun er een lovlig sort Retraktion til Raadighed. [Für ausländische (nordische) Leser, die den Begriff Subretropat nicht kennen, sollte angegeben werden, dass Schwarz Subretropat ist, wenn in der Position nur ein legaler schwarzer Retrozug verfügbar ist.]
Henrik Juel: -1.Sc6-e7 Kf6-g7 -2.Sb8xTc6 Tb5xTc6
the only legal retraction now is -3.e6-e5 (2019-8-22)
Henrik Juel: Niels Høeg invented the help-retrostalemate stipulation, which was critized for ending in an illegal position
Then he modified it to help-sub-retrostalemate, but this was not a great success either (2019-8-23)
Mario Richter: Henrik, usually it is sufficent to use some automatic translation tool to get at least the sense of a text, but this seems to be a problem where Høeg wasn't able to find the solution (in a genre invented by himself!), so it would be nice to have a precise english translation. Can you please provide it? (2019-8-23)
Henrik Juel: Here is Høeg's comment on the problem:
"This very fine and difficult problem proved too hard this past fall, when KAK Larsen sent it to me, so that I also should experience the hardship of solving this type of problem; at last I put it away thinking that it was unsolvable; I could get no further than the try R: 1. Lb8xTc7 Tc6xBc7 2. Sc8xTe7 Tb6xTc6. So it was a real pleasure to re-consider it now and break it [i.e., solve it]. The beauty of it is that Sc6-e7 may not leave wBe7, and the large number of free black men paralyzed by the position of wK."
This translation is not word by word precise, but it should convey the essence.
Mario, can you re-program your solver to test help-sub-retrostalemate problems? (2019-8-23)
Mario Richter: Henrik thank you very much for the translation!
Regarding your question, reprogramming rawbats is not the problem - in fact, rawbats supports the stipulation "retract a specified number moves and print the FEN of the resulting position" (e.g. r2=2sFEN means: both sides retract two moves, "s" means: Black starts the retractions), so in principle, rawbats can deal with such problems even now. The problem is the huge amount of positions to investigate. Even for the 3-piece-problem P0001964 this requires to check for 1.003.613 positions if they fullfil the subretro-stalemate condition ...

Btw. the above 'Skakbladet' definition of help-sub-retrostalemate problems doesn't say anything about the white King being in check, so e.g. in P0001964 rawbats finds retractions like R: 1. Kh2-h1 Kb2xTc1 2. Ta1xLc1 Ld2xLc1 (2019-8-23)
Henrik Juel: In 'Niels Høegs skakproblemer' from 1982, Herbert Hultberg writes on retrostalemate and subretrostalemate problems (p.147, originally in swedish):
'In the late 1930s Niels Høeg presented a new retractor form, the retrostalemate, where the two camps help each other reachihg the goal, which is a (from a retro point illegal) position, where Black is retrostalemate, i.e. he has no retractions. ... As the goal is an illegal position, some criticism arose, and Høeg modified it to subretrostalemate, where the goal is that Black at the end only has one retraction available. To avoid banalities it is determined that this only available retraction may not be an uncheck or a double pawn step preceding an ep capture.' (2019-8-23)
Henrik Juel: The answer to your objection lies in the last sentence of the Hultberg quotation, Mario; the two restrictions may have been added, when Høeg realized the cook potential without them
On rawbats testing: I had forgotten the enormous number of possible retractions, even in just 2 whole moves
Note that 'Help-' was omitted in the original names of the two stipulations, but just understood (2019-8-23)
comment
Keywords: Help retractor
Genre: Retro
Input: Mario Richter, 2019-8-22
Last update: Alfred Pfeiffer, 2019-8-30 more...
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Mario Richter (1)